The Gaming Den

Sex is boring.

angelfromanotherpin wrote:

A_Cynic wrote:In other news: Sparkling as a symbolism for Vampires makes no sense.

Sure it does. Vampires are used as a metaphor for a lot of things, death, disease, nobles, sex, etc. In Twilight, they're exclusively a metaphor for sex. Sex is awesome, so vampires are awesome.

But sex (and thus vampires) in broad daylight is (are) awesome and super-pretty. The only downside is that people will get all up in your face about it.

No, no, if I see a sparkling dude out in a parking lot, I'm not giong to get in his face. I'm going to chalk it off as some dumb idiot who plays too much with Sparkle powder. it's a bitch to get out, you know.

sigma999 wrote:There's ALWAYS a plethora of chunky goth wiccans to cash in on, a renewable economic resource of Western culture.

I know a lot of people who this book series would sell to, and none of them are "chunky goth wiccans". In fact, not only are they none of the three of that, but I have never met a single person who is all 3 of those.

A decent argument for cultural homogeneity would then be to say you're the statistical aberration, as I, here in Brazil, know lots of them. And of course some would love that crap - I wouldn't bet on all, or very near so, though. And the reviews are awesome - though I weep for all the trees (the ones that didn't have a story printed on it might be the least molested depending on how you look at it ).

Yeah, you could say that I'm the statistical aberration, but you couldn't prove it. I'm merely pointing out to sigma that not only has he not proved his case, but I think his case is retarded.

Could be "proved" by enough people agreeing with me. But are you saying goth wiccans (regardless of weight) aren't their own (big) market share, or something else?

Well, I don't believe they are a huge market share, no, but what I was saying is that the book/movie is certainly not targeted specifically to that group (which is what sigma was implying).

Surgo wrote:Well, I don't believe they are a huge market share, no, but what I was saying is that the book/movie is certainly not targeted specifically to that group (which is what sigma was implying).

I wouldn't be surprised if it was a mass conversion attempt.

It's not really an attempt to convert anyone to that lifestyle either.

It's a fucking romance novel-turned-movie. It has the same target group that all romance novels do -- bored women, of pretty much all ages. Yeah, all ages. My girlfriend has a huge stack of romance books from earlier days in her life, and her mother borrows them all the time. I'd only be mildly surprised if her grandmother liked them too.

Might well be reviewer bias, but it looks like the novel's blatantly Mormon in a way I think most romance isn't. And pretty much hot sweet-talking (as opposed to, say, monstrous insanely homicidal) vampire -> goth wiccan AFAIK.

Monstrous, insanely homicidal vampires have been "out" for quite a while, AFAIK.

We've come quite a ways from the "bloated, disease-carrying peasant corpse / avatar of decay" style of vampire...dammit.

Talisman wrote:Monstrous, insanely homicidal vampires have been "out" for quite a while, AFAIK.

We've come quite a ways from the "bloated, disease-carrying peasant corpse / avatar of decay" style of vampire...dammit.

To capitalize on goths, perhaps? Also, a pity.

Surgo wrote:I have never met a single person who is all 3 of those.

I daresay that you live in the wrong place. See... In Washington state, while you probably won't find a chunky goth wiccan in Forks, you will find them in Olympia.

Surgo wrote:It has the same target group that all romance novels do -- bored women, of pretty much all ages. Yeah, all ages. My girlfriend has a huge stack of romance books from earlier days in her life, and her mother borrows them all the time. I'd only be mildly surprised if her grandmother liked them too.

I don't know that I consider myself a bored woman, but every now and again, I like the trashy romance novel. They're great because unlike the non-fiction I usually read, they're not too absorbing mentally, they progress quickly, they usually have a good sense of closure, they're easy to stop and start so if you're called away to do something - like participate in life - they aren't so gripping the world stops until you're finished, and you can find one in any genre you prefer to read about.

Maj wrote:I don't know that I consider myself a bored woman, but every now and again, I like the trashy romance novel. They're great because unlike the non-fiction I usually read, they're not too absorbing mentally, they progress quickly, they usually have a good sense of closure, they're easy to stop and start so if you're called away to do something - like participate in life - they aren't so gripping the world stops until you're finished, and you can find one in any genre you prefer to read about.

And that happens to be awesome in your case because there's something else that's good and you read a lot. Most romance readers, however, seem to read little else.

Bigode wrote:And pretty much hot sweet-talking (as opposed to, say, monstrous insanely homicidal) vampire -> goth wiccan AFAIK.

Man, you are totally naive on the sheer number of vampire romance novels out there. I was too until I saw my girlfriend's closet. ...I'll have to take a picture sometime.

Surgo wrote:

Bigode wrote:And pretty much hot sweet-talking (as opposed to, say, monstrous insanely homicidal) vampire -> goth wiccan AFAIK.

Man, you are totally naive on the sheer number of vampire romance novels out there. I was too until I saw my girlfriend's closet. ...I'll have to take a picture sometime.

I'm not sure what's the connection between my post and yours. If I need to clarify, "->" meant "hot vampire stories are directed at goth wiccans".

I beg to differ.

I know romance readers. They're just people. They're just like any other fan of a genre--sci-fi, fantasy, mystery, whatever. Sure, there are super-dedicated fans who keep track of authors and have hyper-focus on a narrow field, but most of them are like any other reader.

Not to mention it's a pretty lucrative genre. Think millions of readers, and millions of copies.

Maxus wrote:I know romance readers. They're just people. They're just like any other fan of a genre--sci-fi, fantasy, mystery, whatever.

Except that fantasy fans (can't talk about sci-fi fans because, unfortunately, I don't actually see a lot of them, even in computer science ...) aren't "just people" (in good and bad senses).

Bigode wrote:

Surgo wrote:

Bigode wrote:And pretty much hot sweet-talking (as opposed to, say, monstrous insanely homicidal) vampire -> goth wiccan AFAIK.

Man, you are totally naive on the sheer number of vampire romance novels out there. I was too until I saw my girlfriend's closet. ...I'll have to take a picture sometime.

I'm not sure what's the connection between my post and yours. If I need to clarify, "->" meant "hot vampire stories are directed at goth wiccans".

What I'm saying is they really...are not. Hot vampire romance novels are directed at...people who normally read romance novels (which is a huge market) and also have something of a vampire fetish (which is a smaller market but still shockingly large).

Bigode wrote:And that happens to be awesome in your case because there's something else that's good and you read a lot. Most romance readers, however, seem to read little else.

Really? That's a lot of vacuity to tolerate. I couldn't do that.

Surgo wrote:What I'm saying is they really...are not. Hot vampire romance novels are directed at...people who normally read romance novels (which is a huge market) and also have something of a vampire fetish (which is a smaller market but still shockingly large).

I noticed this when I toured our revamped grocery store a couple of weeks ago. They put in a reading section in the middle of it (Near the chocolate section. Coincidence?) and it has one wall that's romance. Like half the books were vampirey. I had never realized it was that popular.

I can think of a few reasons why vampires are cool in romance novels, though...

1) Vampires have that totally dangerous edge that a lot of ladies like. Extraordinary competency, lots of worldliness and experience, historical knowledge from bygone eras, and the ability to keep the ladies safe. In theory.

2) Having a vampire fall in love with you sets you up as someone worthy and special of a powerful being even though you're not really anything significant. And of course, he has to sacrifice a large portion of what's habit and required of him in order to have you, just proving how desperately he loves you.

3) Involving a vampire allows the author to set the book in the "real" world without having to actually worry about reality. You don't have to be quite as thorough in your researching of times and places because the book grazes the fantastic, but you don't have to create a whole new world from scratch, either. This, I think, is the big one.

Maj wrote:

Bigode wrote:And that happens to be awesome in your case because there's something else that's good and you read a lot. Most romance readers, however, seem to read little else.

Really? That's a lot of vacuity to tolerate. I couldn't do that.

Surgo wrote:What I'm saying is they really...are not. Hot vampire romance novels are directed at...people who normally read romance novels (which is a huge market) and also have something of a vampire fetish (which is a smaller market but still shockingly large).

I noticed this when I toured our revamped grocery store a couple of weeks ago. They put in a reading section in the middle of it (Near the chocolate section. Coincidence?) and it has one wall that's romance. Like half the books were vampirey. I had never realized it was that popular.

I can think of a few reasons why vampires are cool in romance novels, though...

1) Vampires have that totally dangerous edge that a lot of ladies like. Extraordinary competency, lots of worldliness and experience, historical knowledge from bygone eras, and the ability to keep the ladies safe. In theory.

2) Having a vampire fall in love with you sets you up as someone worthy and special of a powerful being even though you're not really anything significant. And of course, he has to sacrifice a large portion of what's habit and required of him in order to have you, just proving how desperately he loves you.

3) Involving a vampire allows the author to set the book in the "real" world without having to actually worry about reality. You don't have to be quite as thorough in your researching of times and places because the book grazes the fantastic, but you don't have to create a whole new world from scratch, either. This, I think, is the big one.

Yeah Vampires are in.

When my wife was pregnant, I didn't really have a job. So I decided to put my English degree to good use. I went to harlequin's website and downloaded their submission guidelines document and then I went to the library and spent a week or two reading Romance novels.

From a technical standpoint, Romance novels are some of the most formulaic fiction written out there. If I remember right, several Harlequin authors actually suggest not being as creative and trying to keep books similar to each other.

Going back to the "Vampires are in" comment, another reason you probably see them in Romance Novels(I use harlequin here because while I did read pretty much any trashy romance that came my way for those two weeks, I only remember Harlequin's guidelines at the moment) is because the story in most Harlequins revolve around having a supposedly strong (emotionally not physically) Female Protagonist who suddenly meets an even stronger (domineering and physically strong -- see any harlequin cover and tell me the latter part isn't true) male lead who sweeps her off her feet and pretty much tells her what to do.

Vampires take this a step further. They are by folklorish definition (we won't go with Twilight definition for this argument) strong, persuasive sexpots. This fits in pretty well with the domineering male lead option for Harlequins.

This also works for non-Harlequin brand romances and I could go into crazy detail about this stuff but I'm pretty sure I lost my mind after two weeks of reading about one or two Romance Novels a day.


I think that's when I first adopted my current online moniker of Cynic as well.

Surgo wrote: I know a lot of people who this book series would sell to, and none of them are "chunky goth wiccans". In fact, not only are they none of the three of that, but I have never met a single person who is all 3 of those.

Something about these regions near Baltimore creates a disproportionate quantity of fat depressed people then.

I've seen astoundingly gorgeous Jewish and German girls out west last weekend in Jewtown (Owings Mills) but that's the exception.
Mark my words, this state is a fatfarm.

Maj: of course it's too much vacuity. I can't actually tell if it's better of worse than reading nothing at all, which's what vacuous men tend to do AFAIK. Also, I think you got the order wrong: IMO it's 2 > 1 > 3.

Cynic: good time to pick that username. Also, it must've required a HUUUGE strength of will. Did you actually write a romance?

Count: fvck you for making me read more about this crap ... at least, you keep pointing me towards awesome music (in this case, Eluveitie, inadvertently).

A_Cynic wrote:Vampires take this a step further. They are by folklorish definition (we won't go with Twilight definition for this argument) strong, persuasive sexpots. This fits in pretty well with the domineering male lead option for Harlequins.

Actually vampire novels aren't really derived from "folklorish" definitions. They are more accurately derived from the Bram Stoker's view of vampires which is the perfect model of a Romance Novel, or perhaps from Sheridan Le Fanu's view which is as close to an erotic novel as Victorian sensibility can get to. Indeed there is a lot of metaphors and double entrendes between the vampiric "hickey" and sex and the inability to really write about the later resulted in putting it in the former.

This is why you see a major change in the vampire post sexual revolution. You might also say that the height of the inversion can be seen in the complete gender role reversal caused by Buffy the Vampire Slayer ... after all nothing says "phalic symbol" like a sharpened wooden stake in the heart which turns your hickey causing blood sucker to turn to instant dust.

Although I think the current crop is more Vampire Chick Lit than Vampiric Romance.